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vilero
Well after this interesting discussion in http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=437110 I see for (and only) the site a big problem.
Probably DAF555 opinion is the correct one but I see the site has followed the opinion stated by nzcarned.
For instance
Of course we could chose to list cars as they are seen retrospectively, but in many discussions on imcdb we came to the conclusion that it would be better to identify the car by its official commercial name...
But what we have in the site is just Mercedes-Benz W123 if we have not could ID the car as 200, 200 D, etc...
When I'm writing this answer there are 1100 W123 listed in 37 pages. http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Mercedes-Benz&model=W123&modelMatch=2&modelInclChassis=on
If we choose 'Make and Model' in display options, from page 1 to page 18 these Merc. are identified as 'just' Mercedes-Benz [W123] and we have not added (as a possibility) Mercedes-Benz Series-200 [W123]
I remember a very long and very well documented post about Lincoln vs. Continental as brand. Probably who wrote that post (I can't find it know) is completely right BUT the problem for the site is.....we would have to change more than a thousand models from 1956 to 198(0s) and we understand only 56 (and 57?) can be ID Continental as independent brand.
All I know now about cars I have learned here and I have any book where I can look for cars info. Just some tens of links where I get my info. So based on this, if we follow the proper ID based on the commercial name, am I right if we should have to change all Fords Model T into Ford (commercial name) and [T] in the chassis code field.?
For instance: This Ford http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Ford/1917_Ford/1917_Ford_Brochure/1917 Ford-04.jpg was sold as Ford Runabout but in the site we have any Ford Runabout as a model. We have 15 Ford Model T Runabout (as part of the model name) http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Ford&model=Model+T+Runabout&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=- on and others 10 where Runabout is added in the extra info field and the model have been ID as Ford Model T http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&yearFrom=&yearTo=&makeMatch=- 2&make=Ford&modelMatch=1&model=Runabout&modelInclExtra=on&origin=&madein=&madefor=- &role=
This site I use for my info ID these as Ford Model T Series + commercial name
http://classiccardatabase.com/prewar-models/car-models-F.php#Ford
And this position, I see, is the same for, in general, most of the pre-war vehicles we have in the site already listed. And they are, for sure, some thousands of vehicles we have identified using the model-series name, not the commercial one.
Certainly we have to lean to use the proper name for all the vehicles we have in all contributions but the same important thing (IMO) is the vehicles can be found by any user and by any visitor.
I think we all remember comments (from good experts we have) as 'My book (title) says.....' and other user says 'well, my book (title) says (something basically the same but something different)' and both are right.
In short, DAF555 and nzcarned are speaking about the same but using different words.
If we follow DAF's opinion (and perhaps it is the proper one) we should have to change the ID of some thousands of pre-war vehicles since they are ID based in the type model name and not in the commercial name that is added in the extra info field. Check any pre-war brand from USA.
As DAF555 says, probably in pre-war time, models were known as Runabout, Phaeton, Touring, Roadster,etc... On the contrary, actually most of vintage vehicles only can be found by their model-series name.
I think we are not trying to be the Nobel Vehicle Site. We can get one of the purposes of this kind of sites (to learn and show to others what we have learned, so they learn from us and, later, others we'll learn from they) using for pre-war vehicles the same rule we have followed for same previous vehicles already listed. That way we do a more uniform list of vehicles and, in short, we are using the same opinion stated by DAF555 but using different words. And none of us will be wrong.
Finally about the discussion http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=437110 I would keep the ID as Lincoln Model L Sport Phaeton or change these into Lincoln L-Series.
We have 3 pages of Lincoln Model L http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Lincoln_model-Model+L.html and most of these with commercial name added in the extra info field.
About the Sport Phaeton, we have 7 already listed as Model L
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&yearFrom=&yearTo=&makeMatch=- 2&make=Lincoln&modelMatch=1&model=Sport+Phaeton&modelInclExtra=on&origin=&madein=- &madefor=&role=
and Sport Phaeton added in the extra info field.
If we call this http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_437110-Lincoln-Sport-Phaeton-L-1930.html Lincoln Sport Phaeton [L] we have only one (this) on the site and it is the same as the others 7 I said above.
Probably DAF555 opinion is the correct one but I see the site has followed the opinion stated by nzcarned.
For instance
Quote From: DynaMike
Thanks, Vilero. You gave perfect examples of the difference in denominating cars when they were new (like in the brochure) or retrospectively (when , when serial numbers or letters are used to classify old cars. It's about the same as with Mercedes-Benz: the [W123] was never sold as [W123], but just as 200, 200 D, 280 E etcetera. Nowadays it is much easier to speak about the [W123] to make the difference with a [W115] 200, but when new everybody knew that the 200 was the current model, so the code name wasn't used in advertisements or on the cars.Of course we could chose to list cars as they are seen retrospectively, but in many discussions on imcdb we came to the conclusion that it would be better to identify the car by its official commercial name...
But what we have in the site is just Mercedes-Benz W123 if we have not could ID the car as 200, 200 D, etc...
When I'm writing this answer there are 1100 W123 listed in 37 pages. http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Mercedes-Benz&model=W123&modelMatch=2&modelInclChassis=on
If we choose 'Make and Model' in display options, from page 1 to page 18 these Merc. are identified as 'just' Mercedes-Benz [W123] and we have not added (as a possibility) Mercedes-Benz Series-200 [W123]
I remember a very long and very well documented post about Lincoln vs. Continental as brand. Probably who wrote that post (I can't find it know) is completely right BUT the problem for the site is.....we would have to change more than a thousand models from 1956 to 198(0s) and we understand only 56 (and 57?) can be ID Continental as independent brand.
All I know now about cars I have learned here and I have any book where I can look for cars info. Just some tens of links where I get my info. So based on this, if we follow the proper ID based on the commercial name, am I right if we should have to change all Fords Model T into Ford (commercial name) and [T] in the chassis code field.?
For instance: This Ford http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Ford/1917_Ford/1917_Ford_Brochure/1917 Ford-04.jpg was sold as Ford Runabout but in the site we have any Ford Runabout as a model. We have 15 Ford Model T Runabout (as part of the model name) http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Ford&model=Model+T+Runabout&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=- on and others 10 where Runabout is added in the extra info field and the model have been ID as Ford Model T http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&yearFrom=&yearTo=&makeMatch=- 2&make=Ford&modelMatch=1&model=Runabout&modelInclExtra=on&origin=&madein=&madefor=- &role=
This site I use for my info ID these as Ford Model T Series + commercial name
http://classiccardatabase.com/prewar-models/car-models-F.php#Ford
And this position, I see, is the same for, in general, most of the pre-war vehicles we have in the site already listed. And they are, for sure, some thousands of vehicles we have identified using the model-series name, not the commercial one.
Certainly we have to lean to use the proper name for all the vehicles we have in all contributions but the same important thing (IMO) is the vehicles can be found by any user and by any visitor.
I think we all remember comments (from good experts we have) as 'My book (title) says.....' and other user says 'well, my book (title) says (something basically the same but something different)' and both are right.
In short, DAF555 and nzcarned are speaking about the same but using different words.
If we follow DAF's opinion (and perhaps it is the proper one) we should have to change the ID of some thousands of pre-war vehicles since they are ID based in the type model name and not in the commercial name that is added in the extra info field. Check any pre-war brand from USA.
As DAF555 says, probably in pre-war time, models were known as Runabout, Phaeton, Touring, Roadster,etc... On the contrary, actually most of vintage vehicles only can be found by their model-series name.
I think we are not trying to be the Nobel Vehicle Site. We can get one of the purposes of this kind of sites (to learn and show to others what we have learned, so they learn from us and, later, others we'll learn from they) using for pre-war vehicles the same rule we have followed for same previous vehicles already listed. That way we do a more uniform list of vehicles and, in short, we are using the same opinion stated by DAF555 but using different words. And none of us will be wrong.
Finally about the discussion http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=437110 I would keep the ID as Lincoln Model L Sport Phaeton or change these into Lincoln L-Series.
We have 3 pages of Lincoln Model L http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Lincoln_model-Model+L.html and most of these with commercial name added in the extra info field.
About the Sport Phaeton, we have 7 already listed as Model L
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&yearFrom=&yearTo=&makeMatch=- 2&make=Lincoln&modelMatch=1&model=Sport+Phaeton&modelInclExtra=on&origin=&madein=- &madefor=&role=
and Sport Phaeton added in the extra info field.
If we call this http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_437110-Lincoln-Sport-Phaeton-L-1930.html Lincoln Sport Phaeton [L] we have only one (this) on the site and it is the same as the others 7 I said above.